Author Topic: Lets build a 1.2-5.5v driver that takes a 13A  (Read 14132 times)

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Offline Cereal_Killer

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Lets build a 1.2-5.5v driver that takes a 13A
« on: August 10, 2014, 08:02:30 AM »
I really want to design a boost driver for single AA (but hopefully all the way up to 5.5v for 2-4s AA or 1*Li-ion) that has one of the uC's we can all flash and have FW for (I'll also make a PIC version for those of us doing both but mainly would make an AVR one, most likely the 13A so a 105c can be stripped).

I've found a boost driver component that is highly recommended by Everett (tterev3), I believe we could easily make a simple little circuit with only a couple components to get it operating but not very efficently at the low or high end, what can we do to get it to run better at 1.2 and 4.2v, not just ~3v? Everett also suggested a SEPIC converter which I dont really understand. I do know a SEPIC requires a second inducer so its very board real estate consuming.

So its late and my brain isnt working but I wanted to get this idea out there, here is the datasheet for the Ti LM3410.

Ideas, comments, slightly related input, existing projects any of you guys have in the works, anything?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 05:11:04 PM by Cereal_Killer »
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Offline Cereal_Killer

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Re: Lets build a 1.2-5.5v driver that takes a 13A
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2014, 08:24:27 AM »
I was hoping to use the smaller and slightly cheaper SOT-23-5 (5-pin version) but its looking like in order to make a SEPIC it'll have to be the LM3410XSD which is a 6WDFN package (6-pin wide, dual flat no-leads) so thats going to make it even more tightly packed ;D

yes thats supposed to be a happy face, board layout is my favorite part!


Edit: what's it take to design a driver-

Computer w/ 3 datasheet's open simultaneously
2 notebooks (graph paper of course), the one on front of me is a composition book used only for the circuit design and related info / notes directly about the circuit or component.  I was taught this by my uncle who's an EE (and is now retired from a professor position at BGSU which he took after retiring from his EE career). That way years from now when I actually know what I'm doing I can look back and see how retarded I used to be. (Ok maybe not his exact reasoning lol but he is the one that taught me this method). The other spiral notebook is for more general notes / doodles / (ir)relevant info.
3 colors on pins and a lead duce. You always gotta draw your diagrams in pencil so you can erase the mandatory 800+ mistakes but to make them easier to read I go back and trace power points (+ and -) in red and black, use the black to write, the green to make comments (just like in programming) and red for extra important notes/comments.
Oh and note cards, I'm not an organized person but I am very methodical, I don't want my notebooks full of unreadable crap that make zero sense so when I originally come up with an idea or anything I need to write down I do so on the note card / post it / notepad on my phone. Later once I collect the thought / organize it into something that makes sense I put it in the appropriate notebook.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 08:52:52 AM by Cereal_Killer »
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Offline MRsDNF

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Re: Lets build a 1.2-5.5v driver that takes a 13A
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2014, 10:29:03 AM »
I'd love to help CK but electronics and I dont speak the same language.
When the big picture is to big, look for a point you can start at and build from there.

Offline Cereal_Killer

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Re: Lets build a 1.2-5.5v driver that takes a 13A
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2014, 05:24:39 PM »
Well guys not much progress on this front, I've been so busy with my other more pressing driver projects however I do have 5 of these coming. Now obviously these arnt the answer to this wide input voltage driver project (they wont take a li-ion) but I want to have a solution for 1AA now and designing a whole new board is not easy. Also using this already existing driver and just making a new board cut's down the work load on my end, if I have to end up doing the entire SEPIC project on my own I'll probably want to be able to sell those drivers to make it worth my time, using this I wont mind giving the stuff out open source so people can share since the basic design is already done.

If nothing else I can atleast make a 15mm board for the parts off these things and have SOMETHING to use for small 1AA lights in the mean time. Hopefully they run on PWM so I can put a 13A / PIC MCU on them (I've pretty much went to all PIC for my personal stuff but I still use AVR for everyone elses needs since y'all are behind the times lol).

Now to find a smaller toroidal inducer to fit in small lights.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 05:30:02 PM by Cereal_Killer »
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Offline 18sixfifty

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Re: Lets build a 1.2-5.5v driver that takes a 13A
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2014, 08:59:07 PM »
Very cool stuff but way over my head. I know what most of the stuff does and how to get more out of what is there. I don't have a clue how to design.

I do know I would love a good boost driver for smaller lights. I think a whole lot of people would.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Offline WarHawk-AVG

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Re: Lets build a 1.2-5.5v driver that takes a 13A
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2014, 04:57:30 AM »
Got the basic schematic up

Are you wanting to driver series led's

* Input Voltage Range of 2.7V to 5.5V
* Output Voltage Range of 3V to 24V

While Googling, stumbled across this
http://laserpointerforums.com/f67/free-diy-open-source-boost-driver-tested-working-71433.html

Biggest issue I see...the daggum coil takes up ALOT of space...wouldn't be hardly any room left on a 17mm for a 13A...maybe one of those teeny PIC's

Maybe not...thing is stupid small!


Seems the purple board goodness is going strong :D


« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 05:11:47 AM by WarHawk-AVG »

Offline WarHawk-AVG

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Re: Lets build a 1.2-5.5v driver that takes a 13A
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2014, 05:16:29 AM »
Damn..those 20 mode drivers look SWEET!

You gonna sacrifice one to take a peek at it :)


Offline WarHawk-AVG

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Re: Lets build a 1.2-5.5v driver that takes a 13A
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2014, 05:55:33 AM »
Sepic feedback schematic?


Offline WarHawk-AVG

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Re: Lets build a 1.2-5.5v driver that takes a 13A
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2014, 06:02:57 AM »
Dang..those lazer dudes have some really good boost designs already made up...the biggest issue...we have to figure out a way to put PWM on them so we can have modes in our lights

I am wondering if a IRLM2502 between the LED's and the driver wouldn't be able to do that...pretty much the boost circuit does it's thing...the FET then controls the power going to the LED, in which PWM can then be controlled independent of the boost circuitry...

Offline WarHawk-AVG

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Offline WarHawk-AVG

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Re: Lets build a 1.2-5.5v driver that takes a 13A
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2014, 06:39:20 AM »
Darn thought I found a good boost candidate...then saw the 500mA max current...fooey

http://www.ti.com/product/tps61029-q1


Offline Cereal_Killer

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Re: Lets build a 1.2-5.5v driver that takes a 13A
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2014, 04:02:25 PM »
I am wondering if a IRLM2502 between the LED's and the driver wouldn't be able to do that...pretty much the boost circuit does it's thing...the FET then controls the power going to the LED, in which PWM can then be controlled independent of the boost circuitry...
So your saying put the boost converter's output pin to the FET's Source leg then the LED- to FET Drain and PWM the FET? Would the FB pin (sense resistor) go before or after the FET (probably have to go before)?

The TI boost chip can be PWM'd in either mode- as normal boost circuit or a SEPIC, not sure what the laser guys are doing and if that could be PWM'd. I'm sure I could fit a 10f322 / attiny10 on there tho. One of the things I really like about PIC is the internal reference, no need for a vdivider circuit taking up space for batt monitoring.

Anyone a member on LPF and want to invite whoever designed the x-drive driver over here?
Email me : Dan@killerlumens.com
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Online JohnnyMac

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Re: Lets build a 1.2-5.5v driver that takes a 13A
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2014, 05:57:39 PM »
I really wish I had a clue what I was doing with this stuff so I could help out even a little bit.  I love following what you guys are up to though!  Keep up the awesome work!!

Offline WarHawk-AVG

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Re: Lets build a 1.2-5.5v driver that takes a 13A
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2014, 10:08:08 AM »
I am wondering if a IRLM2502 between the LED's and the driver wouldn't be able to do that...pretty much the boost circuit does it's thing...the FET then controls the power going to the LED, in which PWM can then be controlled independent of the boost circuitry...
So your saying put the boost converter's output pin to the FET's Source leg then the LED- to FET Drain and PWM the FET? Would the FB pin (sense resistor) go before or after the FET (probably have to go before)?

The TI boost chip can be PWM'd in either mode- as normal boost circuit or a SEPIC, not sure what the laser guys are doing and if that could be PWM'd. I'm sure I could fit a 10f322 / attiny10 on there tho. One of the things I really like about PIC is the internal reference, no need for a vdivider circuit taking up space for batt monitoring.

Anyone a member on LPF and want to invite whoever designed the x-drive driver over here?
Yes pretty much the FET is the on/off switch for the output of the booster, this way it eliminates all of the goofy problems with trying to make the booster do the dimming, booster runs wide open, the light switch is the FET, now PWM that from the ATTiny or your smaller PICS and VOILA

yeah it seems the PIC is a much better candidate...unfortunately not many are up to speed or have the programmers

I say we try a ATtiny 24 ;)

Plus it can be "dual purpose" for those that want a single mode, click on. just populate the boost stuff, for those that want modes, go for the gusto and add the MCU and PWM controlling hardware
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 10:09:30 AM by WarHawk-AVG »

Offline Cereal_Killer

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Re: Lets build a 1.2-5.5v driver that takes a 13A
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2014, 02:40:52 PM »
I like the idea of having it run full power without a MCU, probably need a jumper to the FET's gate or something.

What we could do it have 2 LED- pad's, one from the FET's drain and one from the boster's out, then you can hook to the booster if you dont need modes or hook to the FET if you do, the booster would run the same either way (at full power) you just leave off the MCU and FET if you want single mode, should cut the price per unit in half for a single mode only.

As for the MCU, I really like the idea of using a tiny10 for AVR and a 10F322 for PIC, they use the exact same pad's / pinout so you can just choose which you want with it ONLY requiring that part to be changed, it wont fit anything like the new UI's I've been doing recently but a simple 2-6 mode UI with configurable memory and maybe a hidden strobe or something. Only thing the voltage monitoring would be handled differently between the two, we'll have to figure that out.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 05:44:49 PM by Cereal_Killer »
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